SS Richard Montgomery

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Well, this could get very interesting for you Poms one day...


http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151027-the-ticking-time-bomb-of-the-thames

 

 

Potentially the largest non-nuclear explosion in peacetime history right on your doorstep... Goodbye London, it was nice knowing you....

[Rotten Ali 599]

I think it needs a thick 'C' shaped circular concrete blast wall to be built or placed, up from the seabed. I would build two, 1m thick ones at 170m and 180m from the ship. The ship sits at a depth of 15 metres. I would dredge the area level to a depth of 16m and drop sections of 13 metre long (1.2m wide x 450mm thick) hollow core concrete floor slab on to which the wall can be better built. Main walls built 16m high in the water table and above surface be to a height of about 10m to prevent any wave or shock pattern affecting the shoreline. These blocks would be ruff cast 1m cube type chunks that interlock a bit like Lego 2x2 bricks. In filled with sand. Topped with a further deck of floor slabs but with a thickness of 250mm. That's about 55,000 blocks at about £100/block, and 4000 slabs @ about £1400each. With dredging, transport and assembly on site costs, I could figure about charging £25 million all in, for making this structure.

 

Now from within an area protected from currents and shipping the task of safe bomb removal could be carried out in a more controlled environment. From the sea ward side it requires a remote control sub (est £1m hire cost) to carefully cut into the ship and remove upto 6650, 500lbs to 2000lbs bombs, one by one and have them transported to, and exploded in a deep water area. Cost of a specialised remote control transfer boat taking 20 bombs at a time (one round trip each day to deep water for a year) in disposable sections about £1000 each bomb. Another £10 million (inc those Submarine costs)

 

Once the big bomb removal task is completed the remains should be refloated a bit like the Costa Concordia and be sunk 50 miles out beyond the Atlantic continental shelf. No where near a trans Atlantic communications cable. I did think the cost of this would be about £10m, but I looked at the money spent on the cruise ship and estimate the cost at more like £65m size for size (One eighth the size) difference without the complexity of being on a slope. But you have to factor in that such a level of care needs to be taken.

 

Therefore with the blast wall fully in place, encase it in more sand and use the "stand back and bust the rest of it (or all of it without any bomb removal) in one go" looks quite attractive.

 

Official Tender... Give me £100 million budget (with the job on a cost plus 10% basis) and I'll have go at fixing this "problem".

 

P.S. Replacing every window in Sheerness will cost about £20 million (£200/window, 8 in a house, 13,000 houses) if the remains have to be busted without being moved. It is said the cost of removal and repair to the coast line in the case of the Costa Concordia to be over $1.2 billion.

 

Heaven knows how much the damage to the town of Sheerness would be if the 1400 tonnes of explosives on the SS Richard Montgomery blows up without any defences but 13,000 properties in the area at average £200k 10% damage each would be £260 million. Loss of life in such a random explosion could be easily be more than 1% of the local population (200 lives). Spending at least £25 million on a dedicated blast wall now is a no-brainer.

 

Also provide about 100 local jobs for a year.

 

Maybe after removal the blast wall structure could be used as a tidal rise and fall power station.

 

However, I commend the painter of that black humour mural.

[Rotten Ali 599]

So I've carried on digging and find this assessment even more concerning...

 

A BBC news report in 1970, speculated that if the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery exploded, it would throw a 1,000-foot-wide column of water and debris nearly 10,000 feet into the air and generate a wave 16 feet high. Almost every window in Sheerness (pop. 37,852 (2001 census)) would be broken and buildings would be structurally damaged by the blast. This, however, is a very conservative view based on 1400 tons of explosive detonating in a chain explosion rather than one single detonation. The opinion was sought of retired Royal Engineer Major A. B. Hartley, MBE, GM., Britain's most famous and the world's most experienced bomb disposal expert. His conservative forecast would be for windows to be shattered in Southend-on-Sea, Westcliff-on-Sea, Leigh-on-Sea, Shoeburyness, all some 6.5 miles away in Essex and a number of smaller communities with a population totaling at least 375,000. In addition all these places might also suffer a heavy fall of shrapnel. The ship and cargo are closer still to the town of Sheerness, Kent and it is estimated that every structure as well as any of the 37,852 people who live in that town would be destroyed and killed. A tidal wave would inevitably follow the huge explosion and would wash away any remaining traces of the town of Sheerness. The bombs also happen to lie alongside the Thames main fairway used by thousands of the world's merchant ships including LPG Gas tankers feeding a huge gas terminal & storage, also seriously at risk and countless amateur yachtsmen at various marinas. There is no doubt that any ships, however large or small, in the vicinity of the explosion would go down. A tidal wave could sweep up the River Medway to cause havoc in Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham and a dozen or more outlying places in Kent. Depending on atmospheric and tidal conditions at the instant of detonation, the bombs' effect might be felt as far up river as London, although the tidal barriers, if raised in time, would prevent the city from flooding. Certainly most of south-eastern England would hear them go off.

 

Therefore my idea of a 400m diameter open top blast wall structure may not be enough. I was expecting the water and interlocked blocks to dissipate the shock effects, and should the worst happen then direct most of that action to happen vertically. But the above notes make for disturbing reading. A smaller Diameter (100m clear around the ship) blast structure upto a metre beyond extreme high tide then fill the lot in sand and loose rubble upto sea level then cap it with a whole metre thick concrete cap. Still after all that it may also be safer to evacuate to 10 miles and blow the lot when the construction is made. Because no one could be 100% certain the design would hold for the long term.

 

Doing nothing is total dereliction of public service.

[maryportfuncity 10,017]

Nah, it's safe, so reckons paddle boarding bampot Shane Skinner.

 

If he can get that close presumably IS can snag a couple of paddle boards and start hitting the wreck with sledgehammers!

 

[Guest Guest]

I'm not sure how he got that close, because I understood that that the coastguard kept a pretty close eye on Monty, via all sorts of electronic trickery. And if anyone's tempted to go and have a look, from the shore at least, it's a bit of a shock to realise that the nearest bits of Sheerness are actually below sea level. There's a massive defensive wall keeping them dry.

 

And for an idea of what could happen if she does ever blow, have a read about the Thames flood of 1953.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

[Cat O'Falk 3,287]

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

Not the first, second or even the third time I've heard of it and I'm over a 150 miles away in one of the most landlocked counties of England.

[Youwanticewiththat 610]

But on the plus side..Sheerness, Gillingham, Chatham, Rochester...'twould almost be a public service.

[Rotten Ali 599]

That photo proves the point completely that the current process of keeping the ship safe with a few signs and an exclusion zone is not working. Also she was featured of the main evening BBC "One Show" the other month and on an episode of Coast a few years ago.

 

Further thinking in how to address the problem:

 

The artificial islands like the Palm in Dubai have been built by sucking up sea water from the sea bed and using this sea water sand mix to move their coast line. Gradually suck up the sand from below the ship and effectively let it dig its own grave. At least down to bed rock or 10 meters below the deepest draft of any ships that sail in the river. Then back fill with sand, and cap it with concrete slabs to stop sea bed erosion and limiting any shance of anchor damage.

 

Hay presto,

[Magere Hein 1,397]

I have no idea how much risk there is that SS Richard Montgomery's cargo will actually explode, but I rather doubt that burying it under sand will accomplish full protection against the damage such an explsion might cause. After all, neither sand nor water compress well. The explosion's energy has to go somewhere, and most of that will be spent on accelerating that sand and water in all directions up and sideways. It'll slosh. Dangerously so, tsunami type, though not at that scale.

[Bibliogryphon 8,660]

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

 

This was the first I had heard of it.

[Rotten Ali 599]

Just been looking at concrete products in a marine environment and already started to hit some blockage to my thinking. The slab items typically have steel reinforcing and hence are not rated for such prolonged use. Maybe Aluminium reinforce could be used but my guys say it's not been tried. I find it hard to believe but concrete without any reinforcements apparently can't be correctly handled.

 

Maybe it's better to pick the day to blow it up. Tell everyone within 25 miles to leave their windows open. Park 4 disused ships around it. Get every one within say 10 miles to leave the area. Cover your ears and just set it off.

[Toast 14,844]

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

 

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

[maryportfuncity 10,017]

 

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

 

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

 

 

 

But, as one who has seen a lot of local news from that area, it's not greatly discussed and many people are unaware of it.

[One shot Paddy 1,141]

 

 

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

 

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

 

But, as one who has seen a lot of local news from that area, it's not greatly discussed and many people are unaware of it.

I was aware of it over here, but then I have an interest in things like that. I wouldn't just set it off or go poking about with it either as at 1.4 kilotons it would be about half the size of the Halifax explosion and it killed 2000 and injured about 9000!

[maryportfuncity 10,017]

 

 

 

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

 

But, as one who has seen a lot of local news from that area, it's not greatly discussed and many people are unaware of it.

I was aware of it over here, but then I have an interest in things like that. I wouldn't just set it off or go poking about with it either as at 1.4 kilotons it would be about half the size of the Halifax explosion and it killed 2000 and injured about 9000!

 

 

 

The one compensation being it'll give a wry satisfaction to those living in less prosperous parts of the country so see so much prime south east sea front property blitzed in a blast, or summat.

[Toast 14,844]

 

The one compensation being it'll give a wry satisfaction to those living in less prosperous parts of the country so see so much prime south east sea front property blitzed in a blast, or summat.

 

 

I don't think Sheerness is a particularly desirable place to live, from what I gather.

 

 

http://www.ilivehere.co.uk/isle-of-sheppey-guide.html

I feel it is my duty to inform you all about this town that I can only describe as the festering cat turd in the Garden of England. Sheerness is an industrial eyesore and the majestic ‘crapital’ of the Isle of Sheppey, on the North Kent coast. If you have never heard of Sheerness, that’s because it’s the kind of isolated hellhole, you have to go far, far out of your way to wash up in.

 

A good read, including the comments!

 

My grandfather (who died long before I was born, alas) came from Sheerness, but my only personal acquaintance with the place is passing through to catch the ferry to Vlissingen en route to Amsterdam. Good times.

[maryportfuncity 10,017]

 

 

The one compensation being it'll give a wry satisfaction to those living in less prosperous parts of the country so see so much prime south east sea front property blitzed in a blast, or summat.

 

 

I don't think Sheerness is a particularly desirable place to live, from what I gather.

 

 

http://www.ilivehere.co.uk/isle-of-sheppey-guide.html

I feel it is my duty to inform you all about this town that I can only describe as the festering cat turd in the Garden of England. Sheerness is an industrial eyesore and the majestic ‘crapital’ of the Isle of Sheppey, on the North Kent coast. If you have never heard of Sheerness, that’s because it’s the kind of isolated hellhole, you have to go far, far out of your way to wash up in.

 

A good read, including the comments!

 

My grandfather (who died long before I was born, alas) came from Sheerness, but my only personal acquaintance with the place is passing through to catch the ferry to Vlissingen en route to Amsterdam. Good times.

 

 

 

Point taken re Sheerness, on a par with west Cumbria except that it's - just about - commutable to London.

 

The Essex coast that'd be damaged on the other hand, includes some areas of significant value.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

 

 

 

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

 

But, as one who has seen a lot of local news from that area, it's not greatly discussed and many people are unaware of it.

I was aware of it over here, but then I have an interest in things like that. I wouldn't just set it off or go poking about with it either as at 1.4 kilotons it would be about half the size of the Halifax explosion and it killed 2000 and injured about 9000!

 

Spoken like a true Irishman about the English!

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Maybe it is time for a sweepstake. I predict it will explode exactly three years from now, in November 2018.

[One shot Paddy 1,141]

 

 

 

 

Is the fact that the Monty is sitting out there common knowledge in England or are most people unaware of the timebomb on their doorstep?

It wouldn't be the first ship to explode off Sheerness.

 

HMS Princess Irene

 

or even the second

 

HMS Bulwark

 

But, as one who has seen a lot of local news from that area, it's not greatly discussed and many people are unaware of it.

I was aware of it over here, but then I have an interest in things like that. I wouldn't just set it off or go poking about with it either as at 1.4 kilotons it would be about half the size of the Halifax explosion and it killed 2000 and injured about 9000!

 

Spoken like a true Irishman about the English!

 

Nah, just a rather unhealthy interest in explosives that I got from my Great Uncle who was a bomb disposal officer in WWII. The problem here is not the bombs themselves, you could pound on them all day with a sledgehammer and you'd just end up tired, but the fuses as over the years they can form all sorts of very sensitive compounds (picrate crystals ect.) that could set whole lot off and although they are not in the bombs they would most likely be in the same hold as the weapons they were for. I have read before some people say that the explosives would be soaked through, its TNT not gunpowder. In 1987 my uncles were fishing off the Isle Of Mann when they trawled up a WWI depth charge containing 400lbs of TNT the Navy said the filling was as good as the day it was made, when they detonated it the water went over 300 feet and flipped the demo team rib so 70 years underwater won't make it inert.

[YoungWillz 19,057]

And now a musical interlude: https://youtu.be/4AVWZwZq_QU

[Cat O'Falk 3,287]

The Daily Heil's latest:

 

The 1,400-ton timebomb: Astonishing sonar image of wreck that could wipe out Kent port at any moment.

[En Passant 2,951]

My favourite part of all this is the studied understatement of the Bomb Disposal Expert a Mr Dave Welch..... as reported in the original bbc item

 

“The idea that if one item goes ‘bang’ then everything will is, I think, pretty unlikely,” he says. “Unless you’ve got intimate contact between two munitions subsurface, you’ll rarely cause the other to detonate, because water is a very good mitigator. If you’ve got a 1,000lb bomb two metres from another 1,000lb bomb, the other one won’t go bang. I know that for a fact – I did it last Tuesday."

 

His Tuesdays are more entertaining than mine by some margin.

[Rotten Ali 599]

Again, short sighted. There are something like 140,000 tonnes of bombs. Almost no chance that any are two metres from each other. Fair chance if one goes bang then more than half of the sum total will too.