711 replies to this topic

[Octopus of Odstock]

Canadian Paul, on Apr 30 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

Do you have a whole list of all the '34 players with their living status? Not that I want to steal it, just that you seem to be well organized on the topic.

Not really.

What I did, nearly 10-15 years ago, was read an article about Francisco Varallo. As one does (well me, anyway) I wondered how many others are still alive from a World Cup or who has died from recent ones?

All I have is the line-ups of everybody, and in bold is who is still alive, and in normal font, who is dead or almost certainly deceased.

But with so many being relatively obscure, it's nowhere near as precise as the motor racing site I run.

Best resource for following up is the player history website - www.playerhistory.com which is a lot more reliable than the cut & paste shamefest that is weltfussbal, which is one of the links mentioned.

Some countries are quite easy to find, but others very difficult. I tend to have a good look at it every two years or so to see if there's any that slip the net.

But in summary, 1930 has only one left - Varallo
I think 1934 has those I mentioned above with a few more hmmmmmsss like Cisar
1938 has at least three definitely alive - another 10-12 possibles, if not more...

[Canadian Paul]

Octopus of Odstock, on Apr 30 2008, 09:38 AM, said:

What I did, nearly 10-15 years ago, was read an article about Francisco Varallo. As one does (well me, anyway) I wondered how many others are still alive from a World Cup or who has died from recent ones?

You've gotten me into it too. I went through Wikipedia and composed a quick list of players who neither listed as deceased, nor could I find any evidence that they were deceased (eg. I found a source saying that the entire U.S. team is dead, so even though there's no DOD on a lot of their pages, they're all history). Since this discussion is surprisingly on the topic of the thread, I thought I'd share. I suspect even an obscure footy player would get attention if he were the last one from a World Cup Final, though Varallo is an inaccurate measure, since he's well-known outside of being the last from 1930. Also, as a caveat, being that I could only browse the names that people had bothered to add to Wikipedia, it's not a comprehensive list - in fact, of OoO's final five, only Llense had a Wikipedia page before yesterday (I gave Jaccard one last night).

So aside from the four mentioned by OoO and Cisar, we have:

Jaroslav Bouček
Franz Dienert
Jan van Diepenbeek
Géza Kalocsay
Ehrenfried Patzel
Einar Snitt
Pedro Solé
Josef Streb

I'm sure OoO could trim the list if he gets the time, but I don't have resources (ie. the Player History site) that he does. If all were alive (unlikely) that would bring the total to 13 survivors.

[DevonDeathTrip]

Former Rochdale and Oldham midfielder, Ernie Cooksey, 27, is suffering from malignant melanoma.

[Octopus of Odstock]

Canadian Paul, on Apr 30 2008, 06:28 PM, said:

You've gotten me into it too. I went through Wikipedia and composed a quick list of players who neither listed as deceased, nor could I find any evidence that they were deceased. I suspect even an obscure footy player would get attention if he were the last one from a World Cup Final, though Varallo is an inaccurate measure, since he's well-known outside of being the last from 1930. Also, as a caveat, being that I could only browse the names that people had bothered to add to Wikipedia, it's not a comprehensive list.

So aside from the four mentioned by OoO and Cisar, we have:

Jaroslav Bouček
Franz Dienert
Jan van Diepenbeek
Géza Kalocsay
Ehrenfried Patzel
Einar Snitt
Pedro Solé
Josef Streb

I'm sure OoO could trim the list if he gets the time, but I don't have resources (ie. the Player History site) that he does. If all were alive (unlikely) that would bring the total to 13 survivors.

Right, this is the first of a two part post - one focusing on this lot, the other a round-up of footballing possibilites, because there seem to be so many.


Firstly, CP, I must mention something from the above. The 5 I mentioned are/were players who actually played in the tournament. Most of those above were just squad members - that's not to say they're not worthy, but records of them are even less kept than the players & it is unlikely in the extreme that any of them will get obits.

Anyway...
Boucek d. 10 Oct 1987
Diepenbeek d. 8 Aug 1981

Sole & Patzel... all sources seem to agree that they are dead, but they just don't know when precisely. Snitt would be around 104-105 now if he is still alive, which I doubt.

Streb appears to be alive, but didn't play & that German side was pretty poor, so there won't be an obit.

As for Kalocsai, he only recently passed away - the link is in Hungarian, but he appears to have died on 29 July 2007.

[Octopus of Odstock]

Okay, here is my list (yes, yes I know Godot, I plead guilty to liking lists!) of footballers/football related people who are plain darn ill. There's enough here for a whole team on the DDP - in fact, probably two (though there's already one anyway).


Cancer
Bobby Moncur - 63, ex-Newcastle, Sunderland, Scotland - colon cancer - obit assured.
Gary Kelly - 41, ex-Oldham & Bury - cancer - obit possible, but not assured
Ernie Cooksey - 27, ex Oldham, Rochdale & Boston - skin cancer - obit probable
Sir Bobby Robson - 75, ex-England manager & player etc. etc - lung cancer - obit assured
Peter Jackson - 47, current Lincoln City manager - throat cancer - obit assured
Eddie Thompson - 68, Dundee United chairman - terminal bone cancer - obit assured
Tommy Burns - 51, ex Celtic & Scotland player, ex Celtic boss - skin cancer - obit assured
Alan Kelly - 71, ex Preston & Ireland - dad of Gary - cancer - obit most probable
Paul Canoville - 46 - ex Chelsea & Reading (first black player for Chelsea) - cancer twice - obit assured

Parkinsons/Alzheimers
Paul Madeley - 63 - ex Leeds & England - Parkinson's amongst many other ailments - obit assured
Ray Kennedy - 56 - ex Liverpool, Arsenal & England - long-time Parkinson's - obit assured
Peter Broadbent - 74, ex-England & Wolves - Alzheimers - obit assured

Other Illnesses - all obits assured bar Zajec, which is most probable cos of Pompey links
Malcolm Allison - 80, ex Man City boss - past alcoholism & respiratory problems (only has one lung)
Eddie Turnbull - 85, ex Hibs & Scotland - two strokes in past
Sammy Cox - 84, ex Rangers & Scotland - very fat & heart probs
John Neal - 76, ex Chelsea & Middlesbrough boss - heart problems
Khaliliou Fadiga - 33, ex Bolton & Senegal - major heart problems
Paul Gascoigne - 40, ex Newcastle, Spurs & England - loopy as a fruitcake, drinker, HIV??
Diego Maradona - 47 - ex Argentina - fat & drugs & loopy
Velimir Zajec - 52 - ex Yugoslavia player, ex-Pompey boss - believed to have motor neurone disease?? (Not 100% certain, but that's why I took a risk with him on the 2008 DDP)
Brookes Mileson - 60, ex-Chairman of Gretna - brain infection, cancer, serious stomach problems

Not Ill But Old - again, all obits assured
Gil Merrick - 86, ex Birmingham & England - remarried in 2008 so might be okay for now....
Francisco Varallo - 98, ex-Argentina, played in 1st World Cup final. Seems well for age.
Sir Tom Finney - 86, ex-Preston & England - one of greatest living footballers. Seems well.
Nat Lofthouse - 82, ex-Bolton & England - okay health, but has looked very frail in recent years
Phil Taylor - 90, ex Liverpool manager, England player - good health for age. Oldest ex-England player
Bert Williams - 88, ex-Wolves & England - appears well for age.
Ivor Broadis - 86, ex-Carlisle, Sunderland & England - okay for age, but noticeably frailer
Bill Foulkes 76 - ex Manchester Utd & England - looked incredibly frail at Munich 50th anniversary



I know there's others I've forgotten & others that could be added yet - certainly plenty to choose from...

[maryportfuncity]

Octopus of Odstock, on Apr 30 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

Okay, here is my list (yes, yes I know Godot, I plead guilty to liking lists!) of footballers/football related people who are plain darn ill. There's enough here for a whole team on the DDP - in fact, probably two (though there's already one anyway).


Cancer
Bobby Moncur - 63, ex-Newcastle, Sunderland, Scotland - colon cancer - obit assured.
Gary Kelly - 41, ex-Oldham & Bury - cancer - obit possible, but not assured
Ernie Cooksey - 27, ex Oldham, Rochdale & Boston - skin cancer - obit probable
Sir Bobby Robson - 75, ex-England manager & player etc. etc - lung cancer - obit assured
Peter Jackson - 47, current Lincoln City manager - throat cancer - obit assured
Eddie Thompson - 68, Dundee United chairman - terminal bone cancer - obit assured
Tommy Burns - 51, ex Celtic & Scotland player, ex Celtic boss - skin cancer - obit assured
Alan Kelly - 71, ex Preston & Ireland - dad of Gary - cancer - obit most probable
Paul Canoville - 46 - ex Chelsea & Reading (first black player for Chelsea) - cancer twice - obit assured

Parkinsons/Alzheimers
Paul Madeley - 63 - ex Leeds & England - Parkinson's amongst many other ailments - obit assured
Ray Kennedy - 56 - ex Liverpool, Arsenal & England - long-time Parkinson's - obit assured
Peter Broadbent - 74, ex-England & Wolves - Alzheimers - obit assured

Other Illnesses - all obits assured bar Zajec, which is most probable cos of Pompey links
Malcolm Allison - 80, ex Man City boss - past alcoholism & respiratory problems (only has one lung)
Eddie Turnbull - 85, ex Hibs & Scotland - two strokes in past
Sammy Cox - 84, ex Rangers & Scotland - very fat & heart probs
John Neal - 76, ex Chelsea & Middlesbrough boss - heart problems
Khaliliou Fadiga - 33, ex Bolton & Senegal - major heart problems
Paul Gascoigne - 40, ex Newcastle, Spurs & England - loopy as a fruitcake, drinker, HIV??
Diego Maradona - 47 - ex Argentina - fat & drugs & loopy
Velimir Zajec - 52 - ex Yugoslavia player, ex-Pompey boss - believed to have motor neurone disease?? (Not 100% certain, but that's why I took a risk with him on the 2008 DDP)
Brookes Mileson - 60, ex-Chairman of Gretna - brain infection, cancer, serious stomach problems

Not Ill But Old - again, all obits assured
Gil Merrick - 86, ex Birmingham & England - remarried in 2008 so might be okay for now....
Francisco Varallo - 98, ex-Argentina, played in 1st World Cup final. Seems well for age.
Sir Tom Finney - 86, ex-Preston & England - one of greatest living footballers. Seems well.
Nat Lofthouse - 82, ex-Bolton & England - okay health, but has looked very frail in recent years
Phil Taylor - 90, ex Liverpool manager, England player - good health for age. Oldest ex-England player
Bert Williams - 88, ex-Wolves & England - appears well for age.
Ivor Broadis - 86, ex-Carlisle, Sunderland & England - okay for age, but noticeably frailer
Bill Foulkes 76 - ex Manchester Utd & England - looked incredibly frail at Munich 50th anniversary



I know there's others I've forgotten & others that could be added yet - certainly plenty to choose from...

Respect OoO

Some great work. If you could snag that bunch in their prime you could field one hell of a team, weakened only by the lack of a second top-class keeper for the bench. Banks, Bonetti, Lev Yashin, Dino Zoff.....they're all healthy at the mo, right?

[Octopus of Odstock]

maryportfuncity, on May 1 2008, 09:32 AM, said:

If you could snag that bunch in their prime you could field one hell of a team, weakened only by the lack of a second top-class keeper for the bench. Banks, Bonetti, Lev Yashin, Dino Zoff.....they're all healthy at the mo, right?

Firstly, are you mad? Bert Williams & Gil Merrick were top-class keepers, with full international honours & were both legends of the clubs they served so well. Alan Kelly was an international too and also served Preston with distinction.

Secondly, Lev Yashin isn't healthy at the mo. He's also dead at the mo. He died in 1990.


If you had to make up a Deathlist XI (and subs) of them in their pomp it would have to be:
1 Bert Williams
2 Ray Kennedy
3 Bill Foulkes
4 Paul Madeley
5 Bobby Moncur
6 Eddie Turnbull
7 Tommy Burns
8 Paul Gascoinge
9 Nat Lofthouse
10 Diego Maradona
11 Sir Tom Finney

12 Gil Merrick
13 Velimir Zajec
14 Peter Broadbent
15 Sammy Cox
16 Ivor Broadis (though if it were really MY team - I'd pick Canoville for bias' sake)

[maryportfuncity]

Sorry

Missed Williams, Take your point about Kennedy but.....world class, nah. Can't really argue too much with the team selection above either, despite the Carlisle bias I'd feel for Broadis. Maradonna and Gazza, in their prime, on the same team.....imagine that.

[Canadian Paul]

Octopus of Odstock, on Apr 30 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

Canadian Paul, on Apr 30 2008, 06:28 PM, said:

You've gotten me into it too. I went through Wikipedia and composed a quick list of players who neither listed as deceased, nor could I find any evidence that they were deceased. I suspect even an obscure footy player would get attention if he were the last one from a World Cup Final, though Varallo is an inaccurate measure, since he's well-known outside of being the last from 1930. Also, as a caveat, being that I could only browse the names that people had bothered to add to Wikipedia, it's not a comprehensive list.

So aside from the four mentioned by OoO and Cisar, we have:

Jaroslav Bouček
Franz Dienert
Jan van Diepenbeek
Géza Kalocsay
Ehrenfried Patzel
Einar Snitt
Pedro Solé
Josef Streb

I'm sure OoO could trim the list if he gets the time, but I don't have resources (ie. the Player History site) that he does. If all were alive (unlikely) that would bring the total to 13 survivors.

Right, this is the first of a two part post - one focusing on this lot, the other a round-up of footballing possibilites, because there seem to be so many.


Firstly, CP, I must mention something from the above. The 5 I mentioned are/were players who actually played in the tournament. Most of those above were just squad members - that's not to say they're not worthy, but records of them are even less kept than the players & it is unlikely in the extreme that any of them will get obits.

Anyway...
Boucek d. 10 Oct 1987
Diepenbeek d. 8 Aug 1981

Sole & Patzel... all sources seem to agree that they are dead, but they just don't know when precisely. Snitt would be around 104-105 now if he is still alive, which I doubt.

Streb appears to be alive, but didn't play & that German side was pretty poor, so there won't be an obit.

As for Kalocsai, he only recently passed away - the link is in Hungarian, but he appears to have died on 29 July 2007.

Wow, how thorough. Thanks OoO!

[Canadian Paul]

Octopus of Odstock, on Apr 30 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

As for Kalocsai, he only recently passed away - the link is in Hungarian, but he appears to have died on 29 July 2007.

You might be interested in this OoO. I got this message after I tried to insert his date of death on his Wikipedia page:

Quote

Hi!

I know it is almost unbeleivable, but Géza Kalocsay didn't die in 2007. The article you referred is talking about another Hungarian footballplayer with exactly the same name, but with a different lifeline. Pay attention to to other Kalocsay's different date (7 December, 1914) and place (Szeged) of birth, and different career. I was discussing this in a forum with football historians, and we concluded, that the two Kalocsay's are not connected at all.

So it appears that there's another survivor.

[DevonDeathTrip]

Former Aston Villa midfielder, Paul Birch, 42, is suffering from cancer. The precise nature of his diagnosis has not been disclosed.

[maryportfuncity]

On Radio Five tomorrow:

Quote

BRIAN ALEXANDER SPECIAL:
Brian Alexander interviews former Aston Villa, Everton & Portsmouth player Warren Aspinall about his gambling and alcohol addictions over the past 18 years.

Warren's problems came to a head last Christmas when, having come to the realisation that he had blown £1 million gambling, he drank himself into a stupor and sat on the railway line to commit suicide.

Fortunately for him, the train driver hooted and he managed to throw himself to safety at the last moment. Warren has since completed a recovery programme at the Sporting Chance Clinic in Hampshire and has been clean for 10 weeks.

The Brian Alexander Special - this Thursday 8th May at 8pm - investigative journalism at it's best.

Warren 'Tooth' Aspinall was also an important member of the 1997 Carlisle squad who gained promotion and won at Wembley. Oddly, Jimmy Glass - the on loan goalie who scored to save us from relegation to the conference - is also a gambling addict.

[Octopus of Odstock]

Controversial & outspoken former Chairman (and manager) of Lincoln City, John Reames has died, aged 66.

With Peter Jackson also being ill with cancer, I wonder if he will be the only Lincoln City manager past or present to die this year.

[maryportfuncity]

If we're selecting the all time XI from those still living but knocking on death's door, I think John Terry is in the reckoning for the next seven days at least. Looked positively suicidal. Also likely to have the odd frank exchange of views with members of the public in the near future, many of whom will offer helpful guidance along the lines of; 'Terry you useless twat, Gerrard would have buried that ball, no probs.'