Cowboy Ronnie 77 Posted July 12, 2006 ... Israeli soldiers ... ... They shouldn't be in Lebanon or Palestine anyway. Indeed. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Any vaguely anti-israeli thread is bound to mobilise thousands of rabidly pro-israel ranters, hurling accusations of nazism and antisemitism at us. Bring 'em on; I'll never tire of speaking the truth, which is that they shouldn't be there (the UK/US shouldn't have put them there) in the first place. ok, but where would anyone have put the Jews in 1945? The Israelites were there 3,000 or so years ago until they were driven out around 800 BC. They absolutely shouldn't be in Gaza, Lebanon or the West Bank, but one has to draw a line and start somewhere. *gets coat* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,030 Posted July 12, 2006 So, you gonna start that thread or what? Wasn't plannin' in it Star Crossed, I'm not missing the ranters the way the others are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godot 148 Posted July 12, 2006 I think the real answer to HCW's original post is that the DL has lost its edge a bit. Either that or most people who come here understand the games we play. PS. I agree the Israelis should not be in Lebanon. But not that they shouldn't have a homeland. Where are they supposed to live - in the sea? They never invaded anyone. Every bit of land that they took resulted from acts of aggression against them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuber Mirum 119 Posted July 12, 2006 ok, but where would anyone have put the Jews in 1945? Bavaria would have done nicely. A land without a people for a people without a land. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banshees Scream 107 Posted July 12, 2006 I wish you perverts nothing but a horrendous and painfully pitifully slow slipping away death may this pathetically created site die in the most torterous way possible and take with it all of its loser posters Torterous? That's a Bansheeism if ever I've seen one. Nah. It's Brimley again. Torterous isn't really of my style. Notapotato always seems to know what Bruno is thinking and where and when he will post. He identifys very easily. He can see the IP adress but is Brimley that foolish? You may really be on to things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Crossed 33 Posted July 12, 2006 I think the real answer to HCW's original post is that the DL has lost its edge a bit. Either that or most people who come here understand the games we play. True. Without some juicy, hip young candidates on the DL there's less chance of potential ranters (fans of the candidates) discovering us by accident and being appalled. Every bit of land that they took resulted from acts of aggression against them. ??? Untrue. Even if that were true, the old "eye for an eye" philosophy cuts no mustard. "We're oppressed, so give us someone else's country. Now, please." No. They took no land as a result of aggression against them; they took land because they were greedy and had huge financial and, therefore, military backing from foreign governments who felt guilty, rightly or wrongly, about the genocide previously carried out by another foreign government. The bottom line is, no religion or religious text guarantees a right to occupy a given tract of land. Fine, people can practise their religion wherever they like, but they shouldn't pretend that it gives them the right to steal land from anyone they like. Religion and Nationality are two discreet concepts. If I write a book now about how my people live in North America, does that mean that in 3000 years' time my descendants, who believe everything they read in my book and are persecuted as a result, will have absolute right to chuck all the yanks out and repopulate the place? No, that would be silly, wouldn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,144 Posted July 12, 2006 Why do the Israelis deserve their own land. Esentially they are Jews. They claim to be a race but they are only a religion. Anyway, my point is they can live where ever the hell they like so why do they deserve a bit of land specifically for them? Everybody else has to make do with integration, but not the Jews. Of fear of sounding like a mini-Hitler, I think it best if I shut up now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Crossed 33 Posted July 12, 2006 ... fear of sounding like a mini-Hitler... That fear of being labelled wrongly is precisely why good, well-intentioned people feel that it is difficult to criticise Israel. The natural defence for Israelis is to cry "anti-semite!" or "hitler!". There is nothing wrong with criticising Israel, or the policies carried out by the Israeli government. It's not anti-semitic and it doesn't make you a neo-nazi; it just means you care about truth and justice. Unfortunately, because the UK and US governments were so fully instrumental in creating Israel in the first place, and the mass-media of these countries is currently so unwilling to question their foreign policies, it is virtually unheard of in the mass media of these countries to apply any sort of unbiased criticism to Israel. I, however, reserve my right to free and fair speech. How would you feel if this were your country? I'd be pretty p*ssed-off if I were a Palestinian, and that's putting it mildly... Sorry, let's get rid of this thread, it's sh*t anyway (lack of real ranters) and I don't want to hi-jack it by turning it all political, but I'd rather get stuff off my chest; I'm sure you're all used to me doing that by now. SC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rotten Ali 599 Posted July 12, 2006 I'm going to follow up on the Israel topic by having a view on said subject. The whole 1908 idea about a Jewish state was a bit pie in the sky. True the area sits in the middle of 40 odd states that have a Halibut majority but to push out the many Palestinan people was too rough in the extream. Good post Star Crossed, those maps are a good key to the issues at hand. I've seen the UN map before but not the 1946 one. This goes to show that the current borders are way too over streached and there should be some more consolidation on behalf of Israel, especially if they are going to build this nasty 20m high wall arround their plot. One of my arguments goes that Gaza should politically join to Egypt, The West Bank to Jordan, and the Golan Heights should become a protectorate of Syria. They would have more clout if the 3 local powers were taking joint positions against Israel. Add to the mix the latest clash with Lebanon. Please Israel softy-softly works much better than "you hit me, I hit you harder" tactic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,144 Posted July 12, 2006 Just out of interest, is there an actual conflict going on at the minute with Israel and Lebanon? Or is it just extremist groups having a trigger happy time? Sounds like a greater war is just about to initiate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tempus Fugit 212 Posted July 12, 2006 Just out of interest, is there an actual conflict going on at the minute with Israel and Lebanon? Or is it just extremist groups having a trigger happy time?Sounds like a greater war is just about to initiate. Unlikely, this is just more of the same old same old. What is an extremist group? I think the inner circle of the Bush administation are an extremist group, it all comes down to personal perception. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godot 148 Posted July 12, 2006 Eskimos are a fairly extremist group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 1,899 Posted July 12, 2006 Star Crossed, you and I are singing from the same song sheet. Not sure about MPFC. Windsor, I also agree with the gist of the broad outline of your point. I can give a very long, very detailed historical discussion, slightly pro-Arab, about Israel-Palestine, but this isn't the right place, time etc. One thing I DO know, is they sure as hell should not be in Lebanon now. In all this Ariel Sharon post-coma legacy "grief", they seemd to have skimmed over his involvement in the Lebanon conflicts of past, when the Israelis shouldn't have been there either. So if Hezbollah have captured Israeli soldiers on Lebanon soil, they have every right to do so, because what the hell are they doing there anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Hackenslash 24 Posted July 12, 2006 No, if you really want to get some ranters, think closer to home... Isn't it great when dead people get songs sung about them at football matches. Last time I was at Ibrox, I thoroughly enjoyed: Could ye go a chicken supper Bobby Sands? Could ye go a chicken supper Bobby Sands Could ye go a chicken supper Bobby Sands Could ye go a chicken supper ya dirty fenian f****r Could ye go a chicken supper Bobby Sands Could ye go a can of coke Bobby Sands Could ye go a can of coke Bobby sands Could ye go a can a coke ah hope ye f****n' choke Could ye go a can of coke Bobby Sands To me, that speaks volumes more than Candle in the Wind, either version, and perhaps some of us will one day have a song sung about us by 40,000 people at a time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slave to the Grave 22 Posted July 13, 2006 How would you feel if this were your country? I'd be pretty p*ssed-off if I were a Palestinian, and that's putting it mildly... I agree broadly with all you have said. In fact I would say it is hard to argue rationally any other way, but what clouds the issue slightly for me is that there are similar maps for North and South America, Australia, parts of Africa, Asia and Europe, various Caribbean islands etc. etc. When is the 'cut off point' for repatriation, how many years? As for the ranters, I think Godot is right. Both about the Eskimos and loss of edge. I think what always seemed to annoy the average ranter was the subtlety and understatement of the DL of old. That and talking about dead steeplejacks, footballers and ill snooker players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windsor 2,144 Posted July 13, 2006 I can see this turning into something not unlike the spanish civil war. I would imagine that the arab states will intervene and give the palastinians more help in supplying arms. The west is already heavily supportive of Israel. Could this be a case of history repeating itself? Last time it was a question of politics, this time a question of race and religious belief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Hackenslash 24 Posted July 13, 2006 Interesting to compare it to the Spanish Civil War. Would I be the only one who would join an "International Brigade" and fight for Palestine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Crossed 33 Posted July 13, 2006 Would I be the only one who would join an "International Brigade" and fight for Palestine? No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in eternum+ 20 Posted July 13, 2006 If it's ranters you want, I reckon talking about dying children is the way forward. Perhaps Kirsty Howard should be on next year's list. If she's still sick, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Crossed 33 Posted July 13, 2006 If it's ranters you want, I reckon talking about dying children is the way forward. Perhaps Kirsty Howard should be on next year's list. If she's still sick, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banshees Scream 107 Posted July 13, 2006 Eskimos are a fairly extremist group. They must be. I could never understand how they built those perfectly cubed looking igloos. It must be a secret like the 'Free Masons' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 1,899 Posted July 13, 2006 Interesting to compare it to the Spanish Civil War. Would I be the only one who would join an "International Brigade" and fight for Palestine? I can't fight (because of my lack of hearing in part of my right ear), but I'd join your campaign in a desk job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slave to the Grave 22 Posted July 14, 2006 Interesting to compare it to the Spanish Civil War. Would I be the only one who would join an "International Brigade" and fight for Palestine? I can't fight (because of my lack of hearing in part of my right ear), but I'd join your campaign in a desk job. I can't fight either due to my fear of a violent death, but I can sing a bit, and bake a lovely cake. Perhaps I can sing you all off with a rousing rendition of the 'Internationale', and make you a cake for your victorious return. I love this song French lyrics with literal English translation First stanza Debout, les damnés de la terre Debout, les forçats de la faim La raison tonne en son cratère C'est l'éruption de la fin Du passé faisons table rase Foules, esclaves, debout, debout Le monde va changer de base Nous ne sommes rien, soyons tout C'est la lutte finale Groupons-nous, et demain L'Internationale Sera le genre humain Arise, the damned of the earth, Arise, prisoners of hunger, For reason thunders in its crater, It is the eruption of the end! Let us make a blank slate of the past, Army of slaves, arise, arise! The world is changing at the base, We who have been nothing, let's be everything! This is the final struggle Let us gather, and tomorrow The Internationale Will be mankind! Second stanza Il n'est pas de sauveurs suprêmes Ni Dieu, ni César, ni tribun Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-mêmes Décrétons le salut commun Pour que le voleur rende gorge Pour tirer l'esprit du cachot Soufflons nous-mêmes notre forge Battons le fer quand il est chaud C'est la lutte finale Groupons-nous, et demain L'Internationale Sera le genre humain There are no supreme saviours, Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune. Workers, let's save ourselves! Together let's enact a common decree To force the thief to return his loot, So that the mind is set free from the prison cell! Let us blow upon our furnace ourselves, Strike the iron while it is hot! It is the final struggle Let us gather, and tomorrow The Internationale Will be mankind! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Bearer 5,714 Posted August 10, 2006 Thought I'd resuscitate this thread as we seem to have a ranter comment in the Roger Taylor thread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in eternum+ 20 Posted August 10, 2006 I miss the ranters! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
